Grace and Faith Discussion Board 1

[pastorderrick]

In the Ten Pillars of Supernatural Faith, pillar number 10 states that faith is powerful and produces results. We understand from this that faith ALWAYS receives the victory. How do you reconcile this with Hebrews 11:39?

Essay should be at least 500 words with a minimum of three points and one reference while your reply should be at least 200 words.

Paste the same submission from the previous step here by clicking on the REPLY link just above. Your submission should be made by Wednesday the 18th of September 2024.

Then scroll down to see your peer submission and click reply to comment on their submissions. You MUST comment on at least one post with a minimum of 200 words by 11:59 p.m. (WAT) on Friday the 20th of September 2024. Your comments will also be graded.

[saysay]

NAME: Sarah Ajakaiye
COURSE: Grace and Faith
COURSE CODE: GF – 303 – L
LECTURER: Pastor Nkechi Ene (Mrs.)

ASSIGNMENT II: Grace and Faith> Fear: pillar number 10 states that faith is powerful and produces results. We understand from this that faith ALWAYS receives the victory. How do you reconcile this with Hebrews 11: 39?

Hebrews 11:39 says “And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise.
Our daily living, and decisions, are determined by our faith in God because faith is powerful and produces results. As a believer, I don’t think you want to miss out on it or do it differently. It is all the evidence required to prove what is still unseen. Pastor Nkechi Ene (Mrs.) in her message on All by Faith, a believer who wants to be victorious should walk by faith.
WHAT IS FAITH?
Now faith is the substance hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen (NKJV). The TPT says “Now faith brings our hope into reality and becomes the foundation needed to acquire the things we long for. Faith in Greek is PISTIS (4102), which means persuasion, a conviction based upon hearing. Pastor Kech explained it as a support, an assurance, a setting, and a quality of being dependable, she said, faith is failure-proof because it has been tested and tried. Hebrews 11:3 says, by faith, the world was framed by the Word of God. Abel, Enock, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, etc. tested and tried the same faith and the Bible says, they obtained a good testimony. That goes to say they were victorious. But Hebrews 11:39 says, “And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise.
WHAT DOES PROMISE MEAN?
A promise is a declaration or an assurance, a pledge, vow, guarantee, agreement, commitment, or covenant. One of the meanings of promise is covenant. The heroes of faith did not receive promises because they were not in covenant, they were not redeemed, and they were not saved or restored. Their faith was based on the faithfulness of God. They received the promise of the coming of the Messiah. Isaiah 42:1&4. The Lord promised them one who will bring forth justice and establish justice on the earth. Isaiah 61:1&2. Hebrews 11:13-15 recorded that they all died not receiving the promise, the testimony of the completed work of the Messiah. They were heroes of true faith and were commended for their faith yet they lived in hope without receiving the fullness of what was promised them. Verse 40 of Hebrews 11 says, “God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.” The idea of perfect is “complete.” They could not be made complete until the work of Jesus.
WHAT IS THE BETTER PROMISE?
The better promise is Christ in us the hope of glory. The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ purchased the better promises for us the New Testament saints; the believers, and the born-again saints. His sacrifice justified us to access faith by His grace. Romans 3:24, “being justified freely by His grace through the Redemption that is in Christ.” We have access by faith to what Jesus has purchased for us by Grace. We just lay hold of what belongs to us made available by the Grace of God. The difference between us and the heroes of old is that we access this faith by the Word. Romans 10:17,” So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.” Because without faith it is impossible to please God. According to Pastor Kech on Faith Basics, “What God says about you is true but it’s your faith that brings it to pass.” The Old Testament walks their faith but we were given, we must develop it through the Word.
For our faith to obtain a good testimony, and receive the victory or promise that Jesus has already purchased for us we only need to:
1. Read and Meditate on God’s Word. John 1:18, James 1:21.
2. Believe the Word. Mark 11:22-24, Romans 10:8-10
3. Confess or speak the Word Hebrews 4:12. Faith is ignoring, concentrating, and what we hope into existence.
4. We don’t just speak we act on it. The Bible says faith without corresponding action is dead.
I want to say it the way Pastor Kech used it in Faith Basics: “Our Victory is Our Mouth.”

REFERENCE NOTE:
1. Bible Faith Study Course. By Kenneth E. Hagin
2. Vine’s Contemporary Dictionary
3. All By Faith – Message by Pastor Nkechi Ene (Mrs.)
4. Faith Basics – Message by Pastor Nkechi Ene (Mrs.)

[prettyruth]

Faith is powerful and produces results. Faith always receives the victory. How do you reconcile this with Hebrews 11:39?

Yes Faith always receives the victory no matter the outcome of the situation or things you see at the moment that might look unpleasant physically and sometimes one’s mind may want to doubt especially if is taking a longer period for the manifestation. But your firm trust in the Lord will bring victorious result as you wait patiently in the Word and with the right attitude.

Sometimes that victorious result might not be seen in your time but will manifest in the next generation. The promises of God spoken over you in the Word or words you prophesy as orchestrated by God whom you believe and trust may not be seen in your generation but will be manifest in the next generation and that doesn’t mean you did not receive the promise – promises of God spoken out of thy mouth are received promises. The Word of God does not lie; it produces positive result at its time, “Faith in God is always backed by the power of God! However, not every result is obtained while here on earth. But every step of faith receives answer because it is backed up by God’s Word” God cannot lie.

Hebrews 11:39 (KJV) says “And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise”.

Hebrews 11:39 (MSG) Says, Not one of these people, even though their lives of faith were exemplary, got their hands on what was promised.

This verse Hebrews 11:39 did show how victorious those people were. In my own view, they didn’t miss out of the promise of God, they actually got even after they ceased to exist on earth. When the promise came none of them were alive to receive the promise. Faith goes beyond receiving physically.

Matthew 22:29-32; it says “…..have you not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I AM the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob”?. The word “I AM” was used, the statement I AM is a present tense with God. Jesus made that statement hundreds of years after their physical death. Before God all in Him alive. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were still alive when he was saying that.
They didn’t miss out on the promise at all because they believed. I believe that God, in his sovereignty and foreknowledge, planned that their time of reception of the promise will be complete – their faith and ours come together to make a complete whole.

Verse 39 and 40 of Hebrews 11 says, not one of this people, even their lives of faith were exemplary, got their hands on what was promised. God had a better plan for us: that their faith and our faith would come together to make one completed whole, their lives of faith not complete apart from ours.

Did they receive the promise? I will say YES they received the promise – When? When our faith came and joined with theirs.

In Conclusion; Faith always produces results – in death or in life through Christ.
Faith goes beyond receiving physically.

[saysay]

NAME: Sarah Ajakaiye
My reply to Ruth.
I agree with you that firm trust in the Lord receives victory, the heroes of the faith like Abraham, Isaac, Noah, Rahab, and so on, saw how God framed the world by faith, they had no choice but to imitate God. It gives God pleasure when you display His Word in what you do. You went further to say that Faith is an attitude. Yes, that is why Mark 11:23 says, … Whoever says… Says is a continuous act. Addiction, attitude. Hebrews 11:6 also says, “But without faith, it is impossible to please Him.”
You said, “Their faith always produces results in death or life through Christ.” I feel you would have thrown more light here for clarity. You also said that they did not miss out on the promise AT ALL because they believed, their time of reception of the promise would be complete. Their faith and ours came together to make a whole.” See verse 13 of the same Hebrews 11:13 (TPT). It says, “These heroes all died still clinging to their faith, not even receiving all that had been promised and gladly embraced it from afar. They all lived their lives on earth as those who belong to another realm” If you read further to verse sixteen, the Bible recorded that they could not turn back……their hearts were fixed on the heavenly realm.
Hebrews 11;39 in the clause of the discussion. These heroes of faith were well commended but they never partake in what was promised because they died before the promise, the messiah, and our advocate Hebrews 8:6 showed up.

[Soton Iselobhor]

Replying to @Prettyruth

Very remarkable to point out the fact that faith always receives the victory. Irrespective of the interpretation that men may have of life, victory is always certain when we act in faith and this is the truth of God’s word. Jesus references the mountain-moving power of faith, even the size of a mustard seed. I also align with the truth that we cannot always determine how and when exactly our victory manifests. In other words, we cannot dictate the “how” and “when” but one thing is certain, the answers show up at the right time.
Having said all that, one may be tempted to tilt toward your conclusion which is that “they received the promise” and this conclusion you have rested on the fact that the same promise that they had was eventually fulfilled in Christ. While this thought brings a balance in defense of the character of faith as being capable of producing victory always, I will, however, insist that in line with the way the scripture puts it in Hebrews 11:39, the heroes of faith who experienced numerous and wonderful victories in their walk with God did not receive, experience and partake of the promise of the new covenant which was manifested in Christ Jesus.
The fact that they did not experience or receive the promise was not because the promise was faulty, no. I believe that the promise, which was made available in the dispensation of grace could not have been accessed by the saints in the dispensation of the Law. Faith accesses what has been made available by grace. Romans 5:2.

[prettyruth]

Good one sister Sarah, thank God we are in school to learn and I am learning because knowledge is progressive. But I think I’m not okay with some point here in respect of the question in Hebrew 11:39.

Jesus is the plan of all God’s promises from the genesis of Adam’s sin that led to his separation with God. What a loving father that is so mindful of us and did everything He could for we to completely (in full measure) reconnect with him and to possess all he has made available for us from the creation of man in the beginning. The purpose for the creation of man by God was abated because of the sin Adam committed which made him lost his rights and privileges and separation from God his creator. As a result Adam and everyone that came under him automatically became slave to the devil which was against God’s plan for the creation of man. Our merciful Father God in his sovereignty and love for us manifest himself in many ways starting with the Old Testament Saints (the Prophets, Priests, Kings) to lead, guide and protect his people with lots of promises spoken all channeling for man’s redemption.
Hebrews 11 made mention of the great Fathers of Faith we called Heroes of faith who spoke and prophesy the plans/promises of God to his people. They believed God and walked with God and their faith, obedience and patience brought forth miracles that speak of God’s love, His power and mightiness. But verse 11:39 says, these great heroes did not receive the promise and you concurred proving your points that they did not received because they were not in covenant with God, not redeemed and not saved. I’m not convinced with your point and that was why I did a brief explanation about Adam in the paragraph.

A promise is a Vow, an assurance and God spoken word is the true word. The great heroes of faith as stated in Hebrews 11:39 did not receive the promise physically here on earth because they were not physically alive before the manifestation. But my point here is a promise spoken is a promise received spiritually and the physical manifestation is secondary. They believed the promises of God and received it spiritually as they prophesy with a spoken word but they did not live to see and receive it physically till their cessation here on earth and while they were waiting to receiver physically their faith did not weaver or doubt the integrity of God’s spoken word till their death. Faith goes beyond receiving physically. So is of my opinion that they received. Thank you.

[saysay]

REPLY TO RUTH’S REPLY
For me, the promise in this context differs from the promise Hebrews 11:39 is talking about. The emphasis is on “the Promise”. The promise is the coming Christ the messiah. I agree that we all received a promise. This is a different ball game from the heroes of Faith in Hebrews 11. The Promise is something better, a “better Promise”. They received primes I agree absolutely but we received better promise in Christ Jesus. We are receiving a complete work of Jesus Christ. They could not be made complete until the coming of Jesus Christ.
Their faith made ours easier than that of the Old Testament saints. If the Old Testament saints could have such great faith according to the writer, how many more of us, in the new covenant?

[Soton Iselobhor]

Faith is powerful and produces results. Faith ALWAYS receives the victory. These truths can be deduced from several scriptures. Jesus speaking in Matthew 17:20 -21 says that whoever has faith, the size of a mustard seed, can move a mountain. Jesus goes on to say that nothing shall be impossible for such a person possessing faith. In Mark 11:23 Jesus also reveals that when we speak in faith, we shall have what we say. Several other witnesses in the bible such as the woman with the issue of blood and the Centurion amongst others who displayed great faith had undeniable results of their faith. All these from the New Testament, support the truth that faith always receives the victory.
For testimonies of faith in the Old Testament, we have the Hebrews 11. A powerful chapter that recounts the faith of numerous Old Testament figures. The author lists examples of individuals who demonstrated remarkable faith in God, even in the face of great challenges and uncertainties. These include Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, and many others.
The chapter emphasizes that these individuals lived by faith, believing in God’s promises even when they could not see their immediate fulfillment.
According to Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Bible, “…these all, having obtained a good report through faith, they were all commended and approved on account of their confidence in God.”
This discuss however seeks to highlight verse 39 of Hebrews 11. At first glance, Hebrews 11:39 might seem to contradict the idea that faith always produces victory. After all, it states that these faithful individuals “did not receive the promise.” That is, they did not receive the fulfilment of the promise or did not receive all that was promised. They all still looked forward to some future blessings;
They all heard of the promises made to Abraham of a heavenly rest, and of the promise of the Messiah, for this was a constant tradition; but they died without having seen this Anointed of the Lord.
To balance out the seeming controversy between the truth about faith and the fact that the heroes of faith in the Old Testament did not receive the promise, we need to understand what kind of “victory” faith produces and what “promise” is being referred to here.
The nature of faith’s victory is that it consists in what has been promised and what has been made available by God in grace. Pastor Nkechi Ene, in her book “My Faith Like My Father’s”, had this to say:
”The efficacy of your faith is revealed in the availability of Grace. In other words, we can say that faith like your father’s is only possible when there is a revelation of the grace supplied by the Father.”
The “promise” mentioned in Hebrews 11:39 refers to the ultimate fulfilment of God’s redemptive plan in Christ. The Old Testament faithful didn’t see the coming of the Messiah or the establishment of the New Covenant, but their faith was still counted as righteousness.
This is evident in Hebrews 11:10, which says of Abraham: “For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.”
To put it simply and directly, the Old Testament saints walked in faith in believing in God, holding on to His Word, and experiencing victories in great deliverances and miracles. The ultimate victory of faith which came through the death and resurrection of Jesus however, was not seen by the Old Testament Christians because Christ was not manifest and redemption had not been made available by Grace.
Looking from a different perspective, we may also say that the saints old did not receive the promise experientially but received the victory associated because they believed in the coming Messiah even though they had not seen him.

[saysay]

NAME: Sarah Ajakaiye.
My reply to Soton.
I love your explanations on the subject matter, of “faith”. They were just on point I must say. Faith is powerful and produces results and ALWAYS receives victory, only when the principles are applied accurately because the Word says it is the only way to please God. (Mark 11:23)
The heroes of Hebrews 11, the woman with the issue of blood who suffered greatly from physicians, and the centurion, all pleased God with their faith. I want to add that they could carry out great faith because God set the pace. Hebrews 11:3,” By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God so that the things which are seen were not made of visible things.” All by faith 1, Pastor Kech explained how God tested and proved it. The heroes of faith followed the footsteps of God and obtained a good testimony.
You brought out the contradictions in Hebrews 11:39. Your reasons were true that they could not make it to the point when the “Messiah,” the promise, they had heard of. Verse 13 explains their stand “that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth” but God chose to provide us with something better in verse 40.
However, the better promise was well expatiated in Hebrews 8 verse 6, “Now He has obtained a more excellent Ministry, in-as-much as He is also a mediator for a better covenant which was established on better promises.”

[Amotsuka Caleb]

It is true that faith is powerful and always produces results. 1 John 5:4 says, “And this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith”. Faith always gets the victory.
However, Hebrews 11:39 says, “And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise”. On the surface, this statement seems to depict that though these people were in faith, they didn’t receive the end of their faith i.e. the thing(s) they were in faith for, but this interpretation isn’t accurate.
Faith begins where the will of God is known.
Faith is not a magic wand to get anything you want. This means that you cannot just wish for something out of God’s will and try to use your faith to make it a reality. That is not faith, that is wishful thinking at best. This means that we cannot say we are in faith when we haven’t identified God’s will concerning a situation. Though the heroes of faith didn’t receive the promise till they died, their faith was fruitful because, in God’s plan, they were never meant to receive the promise of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit at that time. After all, the promise was for another time. All of them, however, played their part in that time of history according to God’s will and divine plan. They believed the promise and responded in faith and thus were able to align themselves in their own time to be vessels for God to develop the storyline of salvation. Though they didn’t receive the promise, they obtained a good testimony meaning that they pleased God by fulfilling His will for them at the time. The reason they didn’t receive the promise was not as a result of lack of faith as no amount of additional faith could have made the promise materialise at that time.
It is also important to note that faith receives in the supernatural realm before having it in the natural realm.
All the heroes of faith had connected with the promise in the supernatural and that is why they were able to live beyond their time and manifest results that were a wonder to the people of their generation. Even though Christ had not come, and the Holy Spirit had not been poured out, these heroes received a foretaste of the promise due to their faith.
God promised Abraham that his descendants would be as the sands on the sea, and they would be a blessing to all generations. Abraham believed this even though he didn’t live to see this fulfilled. This doesn’t mean that his faith didn’t produce results. The manifestation of the result of our faith will come over time according to God’s will. Once we are fully aligned with God’s will then we can be assured that at every point in time, once we are in faith, we have the victory already irrespective of what we are experiencing in the physical realm.

[Author]

Posts