Ecclesiology Discussion Board

[pastorderrick]

Some people believe that the church should not be referred to in feminine terms because the Bride who will attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb will include those Old Testatment saints who are in heaven. Do you agree with this? State your position with strong supporting thoughts from Scripture and references.

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[Paulpraze]

I would like to begin by saying that, while this discourse is an interesting and important one, like Pastor would say, it does not affect the cost of garri in the market. In other words, our salvation as believers has nothing to do with whatever position we take.
Having said that, I believe that the first question we need to answer is: are old Testament believers or saints part of the Bride of Christ?
Firstly, it needs to be said that this is one of those subjects where not much is said directly about them. However, we can examine this subject from what is clear and known and draw our conclusions. Hence, a dogmatic position should not be taken on such subjects.
Secondly, whether it be in the old Testament or in the new Testament, one thing is clear about the way of salvation. A man can only be saved by faith, a man can only be righteous in God’s eyes by faith, not by anything we do or do not do. Habakkuk 2:4, Romans 1:16-17, Romans 3:20-26. This means that un both Testaments, man was only saved by faith and not by works.
Thirdly, according to the apostle Paul in Ephesians 3:1-1-15, the mystery of Christ which was hidden but now has been revealed is the union of Jew and Gentile believers in the church. He tells us that this was the eternal purpose of God and refers to this body of believers as “whole family in heaven and earth”.
Furthermore, Hebrews 11:39-40 seems to suggest that while these old Testament saints may not have received the promise, they have now been perfected with us. Because Christ had not come in their time, they were saved by faith looking forward to the coming of Christ. However, upon the coming of Christ and His finished work, there is a perfection that they have now experienced which they did not have.
All of these aforementioned points suggest that there really is no distinction between old and new Testament saints. If this is true, it implies that whatever descriptions or metaphors are used for the church of Jesus Christ is true for both old and new Testament saints who have become one in the church of Jesus Christ.
Therefore, describing the church in feminine terms, in light of her being the bride of Christ that will attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is appropriate and since the old Testament saints are also likely part of the church, then it offers no problem to describe the church in such terms.
In conclusion, while this position may raise questions about John’s meaning in John 3:29 for example, it seems to me to be the most consistent with what is clear and known from scriptures. In this particular situation, it seems that John the Baptist was speaking about his ministry of introducing the Groom. He also seems to suggest that his roles as the Bridegroom’s friend had come to an end in the appearance and recognition of the Groom. John 3:30.

[Pchris]

My reply to Paul
I totally agree with you, that no matter the position you take it doesn’t affect your salvation.
The bride used in the scriptures is used as a symbol which is a visible reference to an invincible thing. Believers should live their lives not void of anticipation and preparation for the coming of the bridegroom (Jesus) who has gone to prepare a place for us.
Jesus’ultimate sacrifice, ushered the old testament saints into heaven, their sins were wiped away and no longer atoned for. The description of the church in feminine terms is indeed appropriate as the sacrifice of Jesus in its uniqueness symbolizes the union of the church with the Lord, for we are one with the Lord

[Wechie]

You are right Pastor Paul, whatever position we take doesn’t affect our Salvation in any way.

I’d like to add that throughout scriptures we see the use of different types of pictures :types, shadows, parables, metaphors/symbols and allegories to communicate scriptural truths.

A symbol is an object or signal that stands for something else.It is a visible reference for an invisible thing.

The purpose of a symbol is to illuminate one particular side of the truth and not to provide the foundation of any doctrine.

We see believers referred to as Sons . The imagery of “Sonship” is used in Galatians to drive home a biblical truth. Sons here refers to both male and female believers. We do not see the imagery of “daughter-ship”.

Here a masculine term is used in referring to believers.

The Church; The Bride of Christ.

This refers to the church in a feminine term.

The Bride is somewhat a futuristic symbol of the church.

The new testament contains numerous allusions to the church as the bride. The most complete of these is Ephesians 5:23-31.

The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. The church is comprised of those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and have received eternal life. Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25–27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the rapture, the church will be united with the Bridegroom and the official “wedding ceremony” will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7–9; 21:1-2).

Attending the wedding feast will be not only the Church as the Bride of Christ, but others as well. The “others” include the Old Testament saints—they will not have been resurrected yet, but their souls/spirits will be in heaven with us. As the angel told John to write, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb” (Revelation 19:9).

A bride and a groom are not invited to their own wedding so obviously, there are attendees at the marriage supper who are neither the bride or the groom.

In John 3, John the Baptist called himself a friend of the Bridegroom. This may give us an idea of who the guests at the Marriage Supper in Heaven are. The Old Testament saints will be guests at the Marriage Supper in heaven. That should reinforce the special privilege we have in being the Blood-bought holy nation that is the Church of Jesus Christ, His Bride. The marriage supper of the Lamb is a glorious celebration of all who are in Christ!

In summary ,the church is not only referred to using feminine terms. Each metaphor is teaching a specific spiritual truth that cannot be explained any other way. They are not inclusive, cumulative, or exclusive. They stand independent of each other, yet all work together to help the believers understand who we are, what we have ,what we are to do / be in this world and what the future holds for us.

The Old Testament saints will be guests/witnesses at the Marriage Supper in heaven. The Bride do not not include the Old Testament saints. The Church is the Bride.

[Ben]

Absolutely sister Wechie. The expression “bride of the Lamb” which is feminine for the Church, is a function of metaphor and imagery to communicate our union with the Lord Jesus Christ and the futuristic culmination of this union. Just like how we can get a proper understanding of a fact by engaging our imagination, the idea of referring to the Church as the bride of Christ can be fully appreciated by understanding the marriage system practiced in the days of Jesus (Jewish tradition). This further explains why we are best seen as the Lord’s bride.

In Jewish tradition, a wedding began with the betrothal. The bridegroom would pay a dowry to show his dedication to the bride. Spiritually, this is mirrored by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, where He paid the ultimate price for the sins of humanity, securing His Church as His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27). The Church has come into union with the Lord Jesus Christ by virtue of her acceptance of the price Jesus paid to have her to himself (1 Corinthians 6:19-20, John 15:5).

Right after the betrothal, there was a period of preparation. The bridegroom would leave to prepare a place for his bride. The bride, during this time, would prepare herself for his return, not knowing exactly when he would come to get her. This time of preparation parallels the current state of believers, as Jesus, the bridegroom, has ascended to heaven to prepare a place for us (John 14:2-3). The Church, as the bride, is in a period of anticipation and preparation, waiting for Christ’s return.

Old Testament saints in heaven are best referred as friends of the bridegroom and guests during the feast. John the Baptist, a good representative of these saints was referred to as a friend and not part of the bride (John 3:29, Revelation 19:9).

[Pchris]

I will like to clearly state that I disagree with this belief, the following statements further buttresses my stance.
The bride is the symbol of the church. A symbol means a visible reference for an invisible thing. The church is Jesus’ bride, “wife of the lamb” and when we admire a man, respect him , appreciate him, and reference him, we are careful what we say about his wife and all the more so , in public. We check out suspicions, we are vigilant not to let personal disappointments fester into a global cynicism towards her.
We go out of our way not to regard her , speak of her, or criticize her in his presence in any way that would puzzle or dishonor her husband. We show little esteem for a groom when we insult his bride.
So, those who genuinely admire and worship Christ will not only reverence his person but also His perspective.
In Ephesians 5:31-32, Apostle Paul describes the relationship between Christ and the church as a mystery as revealed in the relationship between a husband and wife.
The beautiful picture of a bride and a groom is a reflection of the relationship between Christ and His bride, the church.
The bride, which is somewhat a futuristic symbol, symbolizes
a. The depth of love and acceptance that the church enjoys from the Lord. This love is seen in the huge sacrifice Christ paid .
b. It symbolizes the union of the church with the Lord , for we are one with the Lord.
The great groom’s choice of his bride is remarkable not only is she ” a chosen race” (1 Peter 2:9) but he chose her in her ungodliness, not because of any beauty she possessed. Not only did Christ choose the church for her salvation, but also to be an instrument of divine revelation world. Not just an instrument, but the central vessel in making God known in this world and in this age.
In Ephesians 3 when Paul offers praise to God the father, he says ” to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus “. We expect ” in Christ Jesus” as the focal point through which God’s glory is displayed but here she is , his bride , side by side with Christ himself, the bride groom : “to him be glory in the church” , this echoes the centrality of the church in making God known
Jesus loves the church as his own body, he emphatically does not hate his own flesh, but he nourishes it and cherishes it ( Ephesians 5:29).
It is important to note that it is the church in the scriptures that stand as the bride not each individual believer. “I” am not the bride , “You” are not the bride , however we are part of the church universal and we are the bride.
The old testament saints went to a place of comfort and rest called “sheol” which is translated “the grace” or “the realm of the dead” when they died. The old testament taught life after death and that everyone departed from this life went to a place of conscious existence.
The new testament equivalent of sheol is Hades. Luke 16: 17-31 shows that prior to Christ’s resurrection, Hades was divided into two compartment: a place of comfort where Lazarus was (Abraham’s bosom) and a place of torment where the rich man was. Until Christ sacrifice himself on the cross , heaven was not open to the old testament saints . Their sins were covered up, atoned for but they were not taken away. The death of Christ is what took away sin and allowed these saints to go to heaven . At his ascension, Jesus brought them to where they could not go before ( heaven). It is very important to note that a bride and a groom are not invited to their own wedding , so obviously there are attendees at the marriage supper who are neither the bride or the groom . The old testament saints will be the guests at the marriage supper in heaven. This alone reinforces the special privilege we have in the Holy nation that is the church of Jesus Christ, his bride.

[Author]

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